Um, the fact that two people are now known to have died changes very little, except our emotions and our sense of loss
Yeah, of course, and of course just for the families of the victims, but you're absolutely right in terms of the police operation and the investigation
Exclusively I'm talking about the police operation. Yeah, of course. It changes nothing
And all they will be thinking about right now is finding out
A, is this a lone attack? And B, if it isn't, how can they prevent a further attack
And every attempt will be made by all of the different agencies
and all the different elements of the security services make up to find out who this man is, who his connections are
what his background is, what is, you know, has he been abroad, where did he learn to do this
what's the inspiration, all this will be going on now at a frantic pace
And I think as one of our guests explained earlier or suggested earlier, some of the
questions that we're tempted to ask at times like this do get filed under how long is a piece of
string, so putting a time scale on when that kind of information may emerge is a, you know
it's a fool's errand isn't it I think you have some reason to think that there may have been
some admirable conduct on the ground in the immediate um uh moment yeah yeah so GMP
the thing that stood out for me is that they they thanked a member of the public and they said
we are grateful to him to the member of the public whose quick response to what they witnessed
allowed our swift action. And as a result, the offender was prevented from entering the synagogue
We don't know the details, but this suggests that this may be something more than a phone call
We know that the police response was extraordinarily quick And what happened the reason it may be quick is how in built city areas like Manchester London Birmingham
what have you, firearms officers are constantly patrolling the streets. They are just basically on shift
And they're making sure that all parts of the city is covered
if something like this happens. and it suggests that a firearms team
must have just been around the corner when either this call was made
because that's an extraordinarily quick response. But they do this for a reason
I've been out with these firearms teams myself. A lot of the job is very mundane
because you're just driving around waiting for that call to happen. And if that call comes in, it all changes
and the response is extraordinary. they just switch from talking about what they're going to be having for dinner
into these absolute machines. And 99 days out of 100, they won't be doing anything except having dinner
More than that, yeah. Of course, thankfully, much more. That's a fascinating insight
It won't have occurred to many people listening. I'm sort of reminded of the, in some ways
the definition of some elements of public service, public duty, and indeed the public sector, is that they are there in case we need them
But it's a good day when we don't. Absolutely. Absolutely. But I've been along to the training of these firearms officers and the counterterrorism firearms officers
It takes place in Gravesend and what the instructors do and how they are taught to do what they do is they might just be having a cup of tea and then all of a sudden everything will change and you will just hear shots out of nowhere. Wow
And then they will then have to respond. So they are constantly trained to just click into action in a moment
To be on hypervigilance almost, high alert, constantly. On that subject who and how is the decision taken to discharge a firearm to actually shoot a suspect So really it up to the officer but what happens is they are in constant contact to a control room
The control room will send them there, and then the control room would have told the officers
who were on their way there that there is a man, there is a man that appears to be trying to get into a synagogue
and he appears to have what looks like a suicide vest. Therefore, I am authorising you to shoot on sight
And it will be then up to the officer to make that decision. That's what they're trained to do
And what they're trained to do is shoot to kill. They're not trained to shoot to incapacitate
They're trained to shoot to kill. That will be contingent upon the belief that he's wearing an explosive vest
Yes, absolutely. As you suggested earlier, if it turns out not to be real... That doesn't matter
It doesn't matter at all for obvious reasons. But it is designed then because there's a desire to be killed
Exactly, yes. This happened at the Fishmongers Hall attack. This happened at the London Bridge attack
where all the attackers were wearing what appeared to be a suicide vest
yet when they were then shot dead, they realised that it was fake
And as I said, the majority of these vests are fake because the process and the complexities of actually making a live one is very hard to do
Because it completely changes the complexion of the policing challenge, doesn't it? if that person is believed to be, as you say, potentially explosive
Correct. It is a known tactic by terrorists that they will adopt to wear a fake suicide vest
because they don't want to make it out of there alive. What will be the situation on the ground
We spoke to Anthony. He painted quite a graphic picture, actually, of air ambulances flying into adjacent fields
fire engines turning up, police officers armed and masked, patrolling the area
What will be their priorities at this point? Well the GMP have declared a Plato major incident That basically is code word for respond as if it is a marauding terror attack so it is all resources will be being poured into this and the um obviously the first
priority is to um is to um look after the victims they will they they are being looked after by the
ambulance services and the paramedics and then it will be then they will be looking straight away
is this a one-off offence is this a one-off attack or is this part of a wider plot
that's exactly what they'll be looking into right now. And the people
in the synagogue the people in the congregation as far as we're aware the attacker didn't
breach the building they'll be receiving care and concern. So it's a
I mean, it's a strange scenario, Andy, because if the suspect has been shot, as is being reported
and if he was or she was a lone operator, then the threat level feels high, but it may actually already be over
Yes, exactly that. But that is exactly the priority for the police at the moment
Is there more to come? They will be trying to find out who this man is, where's he from
They will be gathering intelligence right now to find out if he is a lone wolf or if he is part of a wider plot
And if CT, you were to assume leadership on this, when might that happen? When might we expect counterterrorism officers to assume the lead on an investigation or an operation like this
It usually happens within the first hour or two that it will be passed to counterterrorism police
And that would be announced. We'd find that out fairly quickly. Yes, it would. I mean, I'm constantly checking my phone right now because I'm kind of waiting for an update
I text a source just before I came on air and they told me that it is still with Greater Manchester Police at the moment
and counterterrorism policing are not leading this at the moment