hi everyone I'm Kell ooro and this is adaptable Behavior explained hi
everybody thank you so much for tuning in today to adaptable I'm excited to share with you a conversation that is
really near and dear to my heart and to many many um viewers as well and I'm
really excited to have our guest with us today to talk about this topic we're going to talk about the intersection of
religion and Faith with therapy and with me I have my friend and colleague
Brianna it and I'm so happy to have her because we have really rich beautiful conversations about this topic all the
time and so I couldn't think of a better guest to have on the show today with you to share more about this topic so
Brianna welcome and thank you so much for being with us please tell us a little bit about yourself thank you I'm
happy to be here um yes so I am a licensed associate counselor I work at
infinite healing and wellness with Kelly and many other wonderful therapists I
recently moved up to Northern Arizona with my family so I've moved completely
online with my clients which has been quite the transition reminds me a bit of
Co and you know we are rolling with it it's going well being adaptable and
flexible yes yes that's one reason why we you I think we're meeting virtually
today which I love right and and that said you know the reason we wanted to
talk about this topic is because religion is such an important concept
and Faith uh even more so for so much of the population and spirituality and how
people uh think about something greater than ourselves is so varied but for most
of us it has it it it plays a role or it plays a part in how we see ourselves how
we view ourselves in the world uh it helps us to determine values our morals
and how we socially get along and a lot of times this is an important concept to discuss when it comes to the concept of
therapy and getting therapy as well because this can be a little bit of a a conflict internally and externally for
people when it comes to this topic so let's talk a little bit more about why this is important can you can you share
with us why for you this is a really important conversation to be having with our uh listeners today absolutely so I
am a person of faith I grew up Christian in a Christian household faith has been
a part of my story for a very long time as well as how I've shifted throughout
the years in how I just understand my faith how I interact with it my
relationship with it that even in recent years being a therapist has definitely been a big shift in and of itself so
there's been a lot of a lot of thought a lot of struggle a lot of meaning in this
for me and it's been such a journey and I wouldn't have it any other way and
it's just a big part of my life well and I would say that the whole the whole idea of of evolution of growth I would
hope is um is something that does change it's not linear and so as we learn
ourselves as we understand ourselves better in relationship with our faith whatever that Faith may be I I think
that the more we learn in those relationships the more we start to look
at and analyze the way we uh the way Faith interacts in our life as well and
you know I I want to really start out with something to say we want to
disclose and be honoring that we're just we're just uh humans we're both licensed
therapists but we're not theologians we do not have Masters in religion we do
not have additional Advanced education we are just humans who see clients and religion plays a big role and so if we
misspeak or if we get something wrong we're speaking anecdotally we do have some research to support some things
we're going to talk about but mostly we're going to talk about experiences and how uh people can figure out how to
make some decis decisions for themselves related to Faith and really hope hope to broaden perspective a little bit about
the way religion can really play a a prominent and helpful role for people
and also it doesn't have to have anything to do with therapeutic process and experience if that's not for someone
and that it's very personalized so I just want to disclose that we're going to do our best to be honoring but please
uh please recognize we know uh the the imperfection that is likely to be part
of this show and we're going to do our best to be honoring uh one thing that I think is a really important and notable
concept is there has been globally an increase in spirituality but
specifically in the US um 41 PE 41% of people say they've grown more spiritual
over their lifetime and the percentage of Americans who consider themselves spiritual but not religious has actually
increased from 6% in 2009 to nearly 25% in recent years so people
tend to be trending towards less religiosity and more spirituality which
I think is an interesting thing in and of itself when it comes to the concept of religion and there has been a bit of
a decrease in religiosity um and and like 33% of
people report becoming less religious over time and I think that that's something to note uh because there's
also people that identify as both religious and spiritual and and there's
there's a whole broad variation of how people identify and then even within
specific religions you know we were talking earlier while we were preparing for the show a little bit and I said we
could be sitting in in the same church you know identify in the same faith and someone right next to us might be
interpreting whatever is being said by the pastor or the priest or you know the rabbi a very different um experience or
interpretation of what was being said and so I think there's a lot of flexibility when it comes to perspective
and so anyway I think that this topic is important to discuss for those reasons as well as I know that it can often be
considered a potential barrier in going to therapy so so all that to say please
share with us and our listeners why for you personally this is such an important
topic and why you have so much passion related to this uh conversation today I
think a big part of my own Journey not only as a human but as a therapist has
been to grow into expand and understand
more myself and others and a big part of that has been navigating these gray
areas of life and I had to figure out how that fit into my faith it's how does
that coincide and how can I operate as a therapist and still be a
Christian while not putting any of my faith or any of my
personal bias on others so as I've worked out that conflict and that
struggle within myself a beautiful balance has emerged and I have many
conversations with therapists as well as just to my personal life about how we
can incorporate faith in everyday activity and it really doesn't have to be black or white or scary or too much
for anybody where we just have to go I can't do that it's something that we can all navigate if we have the right tools
right you know and it makes me think about the fact that we're humans first when we enter the therapeutic office and
although we have extensive training and ethics training and guidance on how we
are to really leave our own personal values and beliefs at the door and meet our clients where they are and what
matters to them is really the only interest we should have is what do you need what's working for you what's not
what do you find helpful and and truthfully what are resources that you find in your life that help to make you
feel more resilient and I think that for us as therapists it can be tricky at times to respectfully integrate a
client's faith into their therapeutic practice and their experience without imposing our own beliefs because we do
bring implicit bias to every situation whether we want to or not and we also
have our own personal experiences that help you know to guide our thought
processes and everything else so how do we approach this as therapists what are some things we can share with our
listeners that we approach this in order to be uh respectful while integrating
someone's faith and leaving our own personal beliefs at the door yes great question a great first
place to start for any therapist is coming in with non-judgment we come in
we look at this person in front of us and we recognize they're a whole human being apart from us they have this huge
wealth of knowledge of their own life and their own beliefs and it's getting curious It's Going how do
they live out their faith what is Faith to them what's that relationship they have with their faith and just what does
that look like for them everybody's very different and so if we go in with curious eyes it can help a lot
with understanding your client where they're coming from and even help with any personal biases you may have as well
so often I go into sessions and I have to remind myself oh even though maybe I
have very similar life background to this person I don't know what they're going through they do they need to tell
me and that's the same for any topic religion is religion spirituality faith
is just one of those subtopics that we go into and understanding how someone's
Faith or spiritual practices or religious culture has influenced them
both for the for the positive and for the negative because let's be honest with all religion there's an
interpretation that involves man and depending on where messages came from they can look very different uh you know
this priest or this bishop might say one thing whereas the next one in the same faith and the same uh you know religion
might say something very different and so those messages can sometimes be quite confusing and so I think it's really
important for us as The Listener to just open you know open with curiosity like
you said and say you know what's important to you about your religious background the way that you were raised
what you're currently still practicing and and what things are useful and helpful to you and then is it okay can I
have an invitation to to utilize those resources if it if it feels appropriate while we're working
together because I want to make sure that people have at their disposal whatever resources are going to help
them heal more expeditiously but I think that something that comes up off in times that people have to also consider
is When Faith or religious practices have been um where behaviors have been
under the guise of religion or faith when in fact it's man and probably maybe
not necessarily of the faith but it's part of a cultural upbringing where sometimes shame and things like that
have been part of the picture of the person's life and then for us to work to tease out those things and help someone
find Clarity from you know this is part of Faith this is part of how you were
raised that sounds more like a family belief or more like a cultural situation
or a cultural consideration and maybe not necessarily uh religion in in general so it's it
really is a teasing out process don't you think oh absolutely and we're
Spiritual Beings it's part of us you it's a very common phrase that most of us have heard
Mind Body Spirit we are we're not just not just one or the
other and it doesn't always just okay we can just separate one little part of our
lives and not have to look at the rest they all influence the other and this is
no different and it's just being really Mindful and considerate of what the
other person's going through and honestly working through your own internal conflix that might get in the
way of you just holding space for somebody and helping them reach their goals which is our role as a therapist
we're not here to change somebody fix somebody it's here I'm here to I'm your
guide I'm your helper I'm partnering with you in this journey you've shared
with me these goals that you have and I'm gonna I'm gonna help you through
that I'm GNA help you try to get to that point B for starting here right this
give and take right one of um one of our awarenesses as a as therapist is to
recognize counter transference and where sometimes our own stuff comes up when
people are sharing with us do you have any examples I I know that I've got a couple examples where I I know that I
was personally triggered and having some major counter transference when when people were talking in different um
sessions about struggles that they've had whether it was uh something that came in the way of a religious
oppressive Behavior or something like that um and it wasn't really under the guise of of the faith that it was more
of of Oppression or control and then of course where I had a different value experience for humans in general not
necessarily about you know what people should and shouldn't do with their life but more about uh unconditional positive
regard and love for people no matter their choices and um and so I can I can
think of some examples for sure but do you have any examples that you'd be willing to share that come up for you when you think about someone sharing
with you in the counseling experience and something just rubbing you the wrong
way because of what it did for them or did not for them I should say
yes I frequently I mean most of my clients have some sort of Faith whether
whatever it looks like it's that doesn't have to be Christian but there's different ideologies that come through
my door and I always get so worked up about
pieces where someone is like you said kind of that oppressed mentality that
experience they have especially with women obviously I'm a woman I've gone through my own faith Journey myself I've gone through my own
religious trauma as well and so I have to really check myself to go hey this
one this one isn't your experience this may not actually be traumatic for them
and they share various ideologies and ways of thinking about you know whether
they the church or their their faith entity that has given them and any
anyone that suppresses women or makes and feel like they're less than or little or they aren't worth sharing
anything because they don't have anything worth sharing that's typically something that gets me a lot and I have
to watch myself from like being like well we have to work through that and
make that better for you and I have to really put the breaks on to just
understand what is that like for them and is it even important to them because that's not always something that we need
to tackle in therapy if it's not a problem for them right but sometimes it is and that's where you know there's a
there's an Artful balance I think that happens I'll share with you a story I may not have shared this with you before
um it was it was early on when I was a counselor and I was I was seeing a a woman a young woman who was uh recently
divorced she had been married uh she was uh from the LDS faith and from the time
she was a very little girl she understood herself to be a gay woman and that was not something that was allowed
in her faith and she really struggled I mean her whole life with the shame and the oppression around how she felt she
would be perceived by her church should that be that should that truth ever come out and she tried so hard to not be and
got married and had a child and so on and so forth really trying to just not be gay she did not want that to be who
she was because of her importance of her her family culture and her faith culture
and um and I can remember she you know she she shares a story where she goes to
uh the Bishops and um her her account of it was something to the tune of they
told her she was no longer allowed to pray with everybody in the church that she needed to take a break you know and
this this young woman who's just begging for what can I do how can you help me and and because I have these desires and
you know shaming her and and basically um making her leave and and all of this
stuff and I just I had so so much counter transference in that moment of just wanting to protect her from this
terrible experience because they just uh they met her with with such to me a non- loving stance and and um and and it was
just really a hard hard session and I got so like angry this was the only time I've ever I mean boy did I have to
address this in therapy but I I said can you give me a second and I actually got up and walked out of the office for a
few minutes and tried to collect myself because I knew I wasn't going to be able to be who she needed me to be for that
to hold her own pain I was so angry anding so protective of her and um and I
actually used it as a reparative experience I said you know I'm I'm feeling a lot of protection for this
young woman that went through this experience and I'm so sorry you weren't held in a more loving way over that time
and um and I just felt very angry that you went through that and and so please
forgive me it was not about you that was about me and and it ended up being you know good and reparative and I think she
felt really seen because she was very shut down but I just remember thinking like how does this elicit love and I
know they've changed their stance uh I think culturally quite a bit uh I don't know today she would be received in the
same way but uh but back then it was like really a painful experience and for her it it pushed her even further away
from her faith and her religion because she was not accepted and so I think that there can be those those Faith moments
where trauma exists but um but of course not for everybody but this was just one of those moments that really hit me as a
therapist and I had to you know um yeah I had to really get myself together but
but you know I think faith has so many beautiful attributes and beautiful ways
that we can um we can utilize for our clients if that's one of their Tools in
their toolbox one of their sources of resource and resilience and so what are some effective faith-based coping me
mechanisms that you think can be used in therapy and how can they be tailored for
individual clients like what do you use how do you meet people where they are regarding their faith yeah that's a
great question any part of therapy we're resourcing we're looking at supports
what coping skills do you have how can we build that up for you and if
somebody's faith and spirituality or religion however you want to call it it
part of it sometimes is very comforting it's it's something that they draw strength from and they can go to times
of Crisis and being able to get curious again going hey what are some things that you
already have that are already really comforting for you what something that
you go to when times are hard and as you
build relationship with people you start understanding more of who they are and
if it's something that's really important to them it comes out but also it's our job as therapists to ask questions to understand all these
different different pieces of someone's life and I find a lot of times you can
tailor a lot of coping skills and grounding exercises that already exist
without a label religion on them you can tailor it to anybody's belief system
habits religious practices affiliation practices yes absolutely so I find
things like meditation meditation can be something where you can make it whatever
you need it to be whatever you want it to be pray is meditative absolutely it's so meditative you know scripture reading
scripture that's something that you can find where you can look up a scripture meditate on that scripture even go in
journal how it made you feel what's bringing up for you meditate
on just the different aspects that is hitting you and that's something that you can make meditation you could also
go I'm going to meditate on how blue the sky is today and how it makes me feel it
doesn't have to look a certain way what do you say have you had a client who says you know I can't meditate because
that's not in line with my spiritual or my faith uh my faith and what do you say
to that good one I do get that sometimes because there is a lot of fear involved
with certain practices that we have now where it may have had an or origin and
maybe like an Eastern religious origin or just a different culture and there's
not a whole lot of understanding about it but also we just don't know exactly
where everything actually originates and sometimes people get the well it's not
for my religion so I need to not be a part of that because it's going to
sometimes I hear bring an open door for evil to come into my life or I'm might
be sinning and don't want to sin because if I sin then that means I can't go to heaven or I am rejected and I totally
understand those pieces because we don't want to be rejected and we do want to do what's right and being part of a faith
can help a lot with giving us some moral guidance and sure in the midst of that
we don't have to be so afraid of everything there's certain things that have a label like meditation it's
something we've called being in a meditative State and it gets this
connotation sometimes of you have to do these chance or the spiritual whatever
that comes with it and it's it's just not the case I think there's just a lot of Mis misinformation and
misunderstanding about certain practices where you have some
superstitious beliefs about things that don't always make logical sense and might not even be in the Bible or in
whatever religious text these clients have so it's just a matter of like education kind of help showing
like hey it can look like this and you can call it whatever you want it doesn't have to be under this certain label slow
down and get quiet and go inside yes and just be present with the quiet and and
be open to the and be curious to what comes up for you inside of you and and
that surrender and that powerless feeling of not being in control of that can be scary for people but I think it
also gives us a lot of answers as to what the noise in our own bodies and minds are trying to tell us and things
that need to be paid attention to so that we can find our way toward healing and towards yes peeling off the layers
of the onions that we develop over time to protect ourselves from you know the pain experiences that we that we got
through no absolutely and there's times when it comes up where after you've explained and you've given examples and
hope you know your hope is to help normalize it a little bit so it doesn't feel so scary and unknown and sometimes
still they're like that still doesn't feel good I don't want to do that and that's something where you go cool let's move on let's find something else and
it's never something that we're like pushing an agenda on but it is our job as therapists to educate people on
certain practices they may not know about that's why they're coming to us because we know things we know how to
help heal we know how to help ground and Coke so right and and and access pain
points in our bodies if we're bottom up trauma trained and and you st trauma is stored in the body and so I think
getting ourselves back in connection with the body does often take things like meditation or yoga or slowing down
in some ways so that we can connect with our bodies and um whatever that needs to look like so we can get back in
connection with our body if we've been pretty disconnected because of of our histories or because of trauma you know
that's we have to re-enter I mean we really can't heal if we're not in our bodies and so I think sometimes that can
be scary in and of itself quite frankly so right facing your trauma like it's
not something you typically do willing someone that says I need to just pray
and I can't you know go to therapy because God will help me with it and
that's that's going to be enough what do we say to that you know part of me says not my place to tell anybody anything
and another part of me is going sometimes you do need more help and
sometimes it isn't enough yeah I think God or whatever the faith is I know
we're coming from a Christian perspective a lot of the times but a lot of times God uses various things for our
healing and typically I find if somebody is really wary of something like therapy
it's usually deeper than just oh God's going to heal me or oh I can just talk to my friends they're they're going to
listen to me and that really helps me a lot and then nothing gets
better nothing changes you might feel peaceful in the moment and that's great and I definitely do not want to dis
prayer because there is so much power in it from just my own personal experience seeing it and from my own personal
experience and my professional experience sometimes we do need just a little bit more help and I there's this
you a lot of people have think I've seen it but there's this um or this um
basically story about someone praying and asking God for help and they're they're in a flood they're on top of the
house and there's a flood and they're praying that God gives them help and I
forgive me because I'm going to mess up on all the details but basically he sent there's like somebody in a boat that
comes by hey do you need help no God's coming and a helicopter Drives By hey do
you need help and they're like no no God's got it and then have this other other piece here that's coming by them
and they're like nope and then eventually the water succumbs and they
pass away and they get to heaven and they're like God why didn't you save me and God's like I sent you three
different things to come help you and that always gets me because there is
this piece of this give and take where right we have prayer and we have our own
personal responsibility for our healing sure and and and the fact that you know
if you are a believer in that way God works in mysterious ways through others to help us find yeah what we're supposed
to find in that moment for whatever that that time is so when you think about
like where we have limitations I think something that I found very important in my work as a therapist is if I don't
know I go get consultation from someone who's kind of high up in whatever that
church is you know on the phone many of times with bishops from the LDS church I have a lot of LDS clients or former LDS
clients and calling and saying you know this person is struggling with shame around sex or around their body or
around you know um some different new in a marriage and they don't know anything
about their body and they feel a lot of Shame and everything's really uncomfortable and they've never been
free to know anything about their bodies and explore and things like that so I'm I'm like uh I'm in a phone of friend and
I'll get back to you the next session because I don't want to inadvertently mislead somebody away or toward anything
that isn't for them and so you know I will typically ER with just leading with
love and if you feel shame that's probably not for you because your body is beautiful and we were made to feel
good and we don't know what we don't know so it's okay to explore and get curious if that's what's going on in your marriage and you're you're okay and
you're the sanctity of your marriage and you want to figure that out together I think that's really who you need to ask
I don't know if anyone else needs to be part of that decision you know and with the phone call getting validation that
that's a good answer you know some of those kinds of things I I've I've relied upon because you know I know what I
think and I know what I was raised uh to believe but that might not line up for certain faiths and so I've definitely
cannot stress enough how important it is and a good therapist should do consultation with someone in that faith
if they are not of that Faith so that they can uh better guide you and also get things out of the way aren't really
about it you know this is man this is culture this is Faith I cleared this up with your Bishop I feel strongly to be
able to say here's where you're where you're getting a little bit run of ground and it's probably not serving you in your healing journey and to be able
to really be able to candidly talk about things in that way I think is really important as well and so it's not to
move anybody further away from their faith uh that's never an agenda that any of us should have for sure yeah
absolutely so when I think about therapy and choosing a therapist how important
do you think it is that when choosing a therapist that that they are the same Faith as I am what do you think about
that people who think that that's necessary I thought that way one time I I very much was under the impression
that I needed to find a therapist that shared the same Faith with me and I did I found one and it was great it was a
great therapy experience I also realized as I became a therapist and continued my
own therapy personally if you find a good therapist that is able to keep their own stuff
theirs and not put it on you you actually probably won't know what religion your therapist ascribes to at
all because it's not about them it's about you and I've had both and it's
been it's been amazing it's it's more of what's your own personal Journey right
but it really does just depend on the person there times when maybe someone that shares
same faith is going to help you feel the most comfortable and that's just where you're at and that's okay research does
support that that can help with certain out therapeutic alignment
yeah yeah and at the same time you know we don't want to get too myopically focused on a on something that is an
external variable as far as how we heal when there's neurobiology of trauma
that's really at the Forefront of things and we need to look at the biology of us and yes that's not really an argument at
all you know there's biology that suggests cellularly we behave in certain ways based on the things that have
happened to us and so yeah that there's not really a place for um uh faith in
that moment because there's already the research around biology now that doesn't mean they can't work together and I mean
I've had clients where I'm like we're going to do a gnarly piece of work here and I know that God and prayer are
incredibly critical in your resourced uh and and resilience experience and so
would it be okay if before we do this work that we could pray together so that
we can get everything on board here so we can do the best most U meaningful work for you and have whatever resources
are beneficial for you and I don't think there's anything wrong with doing that how about you oh no absolutely not
you're the person wants to anding in absolutely yeah that's something that
they've communicated that's comforting helpful supportive Freedom you're doing
your job as a therapist to remember that and incorporate that so we just have a
little bit more we're going to talk about today uh with this topic and I know we could probably do an entire
actual just full podcast on this topic and break it down into so many different
different areas but what do you what do you think is the difference between someone who says and I'll use Christian
as an example um but like I am a Christian and I am account coun versus I am a Christian counselor how would you
differentiate that for somebody because we all know as Master's level
therapists we are counselors who might identify in a certain way and we unless
we have very specific training probably ought not to be doing anything but what we're trained to do absolutely well
that's in our ethics as well so right right but I think that it's an interesting thing so how would you
advise someone who you know was looking for that and and what what that means yes so someone who is looking for
a strictly Christian counselor somebody that incorporates Christianity and faith
into therapy regularly it's one of like almost hand inand that's a Christian
counselor and so it just kind of implies that you're integrating faith into counseling
methods frequently you're using biblical teachings and prayer as part of the therapeutic process you're aiming to
kind of address psychological issues while considering spiritual aspects pretty much most of the time and
it's and it's always going from that Christian world view it's you know what will God say about that and and in
different things like that and on the flip side when you're a therapist and then you happen to be a Christian as
well those two things are separate it's basically I am a therapist and you
specialize in whatever specialty is you like for me example I'm a trauma
therapist I specialize an EMDR IM movement desensi and reprocessing and I happen to be a
Christian and I I don't bring that up in therapy I don't bring up my religion
unless somebody directly asks me and even then even then I'm very I use a lot
of discretion in that because sometimes there's bigger reason why they're asking
it's like hey are you feeling uncomfortable what's what's going on it's less about what I believe and more
about what you're needing and what you're concerned about but I'm pretty open about my personal life and how I
how that comes into therapy but yes like typically with when you're a counselor
and a Christian and not just a Christian counselor it's very different because practicing will look and to claim a
Christian counselor what needs to happen you have to special training and you're
there's a special governing board for Christian therapists they have their own
entity and you have to go through these very specific training and lure
processes just like with being in other kinds of therapists and right specialist a lot of people don't know that and I
think that that and then I think that it also oftentimes gets misused because if we don't have all of that additional
training we need to be very cautious because we are not experts in that area interpretation and perspective those can
vary so wildly and drastically and and uh it's not in our best interest to misstep with our interpretation of
something it's really out of out of place and inappropriate for that so I think that it's a good thing to know
that when looking for a therapist and um and that it's more important probably
that they are qualified that they are good fit for you when it comes to personality that their experience their
education and their Advanced trainings work for what you're presenting is issues are uh truly that I think is
probably the best way to look for that but at the same time you know sometimes that matters uh to people for sure so
how so how do you think therapists address the stigma around mental health within Faith communities and encourage
open supportive uh conversations uh that is Hit or Miss I find Faith communities
even in you know if we just stick to Christian as most of my personal knowledge is with faith there's so many
different ideas and beliefs and kind of temperatures for mental
health you have some that are very kind of cold to it and they're you know you
only are allowed to be happy if you're not happy then something's going wrong and you
know we we need to take some action or you're even shunned and other times
it's very warm and welcoming and going hey everybody's welcome here and let's
get to the bottom of that you're still accepted and so there's just it's all over the place because there's just not
it's not standardized it's not something where you know every every church is different so there's a big wide range
that you're working with sure I have to I can share with you something that I do
to address this is I say listen can we agree that God or whatever is out there
depending on their faith that we are designed to have emotions and we do have affective circuits and they are not hit
or miss like we all have these affective circuits and what I will tell a client or perspective person who's talking to
me about this topic is I'll say we're hardwired to have all the emotional experiences and when we shut any of them
down we're not living the fullest Human Experience and so I kind of think that God thinks we could heal but we can't
skip any steps and we can't ignore any of the big feelings and we can't hide and oppress and you know deny our
emotional experience and the things that happen to us so unless we are willing to Wade through that we're not going to
find our way to wholeness and healing and um and and that said there's no
shortcuts we don't get to just you know do anything that that allows us full
full healing without experiencing the full Human Condition and and the emotional expanse of of experiences that
we are so uniquely afforded as humans so I say that and I'm like you know don't
get to pick and choose the emotions we were harded to have that's not in my hands you know right well and so often
those responses come from just not understanding and not having the tools
we need and that could be across the board and doesn't always even have to be religious related but I do find a lot of
that in the church absolutely and it's it's well-meaning we want people to feel
good we want to be close to God and it's misinformed and we do need to help
educate people to understand just how the body works at a cellular level you know emotions are held in the body
stress trauma and when we close yes and they need an outlet and they need to get
out you have to feel it to move through it and so often anxiety worry shame
guilt depression upon yes it's like what's going on is do you sometimes people even
believe there's an evil spirit living inside of you because you're experiencing that emotion and I'm not
going to get into that at all but I do know not can of worms we need to be right with emotions we are meant to feel
the whole Spectrum I love getting out my emotions wheel to show we have every emotion Under the Sun and it's just
learning how to feel it in healthy ways because so often we didn't have good
examples and we didn't know how to do it or we didn't have the capacity to deal with it and like our caregivers didn't
and then that get passed down generationally and it gets woven into
religious matters because at the heart of it there are humans in church and
they have their own limited perspectives and so you're just it's really about like understanding getting curious and
having some education right well I thank you so much are there any other things you want to leave with our audience
before we part ways for today related to this topic yes I think just as a closing note
wherever anybody is at in their Journey you know a therapist is listening in or
a client it really is all about you know how comfortable are you feeling with
your therapist do they align with your values and it's okay if they don't
always have the same religion I have so many clients that have come in with a
different faith and different practices and somewhere all over the place and it's okay it's do matter it's just where
they're at yeah and it's what's working for you what's not working for you and how can I help you find your truest self
so that you can and lovable and worthy and I think that's the desire for for
all of us I mean wouldn't that be beautiful if we all could feel that way right jobs for sure yes I know and I
don't have to feel threatened if you have a different belief than me you know my we we can be secure in what we
believe and not worry that something else is going to rub off on us and right I've just the end the day trauma is
trauma and it needs healing just as anything else and like
when I use EMDR I don't ask what faith you are I go what's the trauma right and where is it and we heal the trauma and
typically everything flows out of that and right so often you get so free from
healing from the past and not having to run away from it so and people access
surrender and then they actually do have much more freedom and when you think about the coexisting freedom from trauma
is truly leaning into the powerless and surrendering to what is and was and and what what we don't have control over and
Fai a bit like that like it's not in your hands surrender is really the answer and so those pieces really marry
well together it's like we don't get to decide and try we just want to lean in to whatever's coming up and hopefully
allow it to have a safe and supported exit so Bri thank you so much for being
on this show today with me I think we could definitely do another one um I just appreciate your time and cander and
warmth and you're just such a doll to work with and I know your clients love and appreciate your energy about this
and and um and that you know the diversity of faith is also part of what makes The Human Experience beautiful and
I love to get to work with different um different faiths and different cultures I think it's fascinating and I think
it's uh it's always so beautiful to get to experience those things so thank you so much for for being with us today for
having me yes and thank you so much for tuning in to these shows on the
intersection of faith and religion and therapy we hope that you found it helpful and please leave your questions
in the uh the comments below if you have those uh or thoughts that we should expand upon and until we meet again
don't forget to lead with love it'll never steer you wrong [Music]
okay [Music]