WEBVTT 00:00.140 --> 00:03.120 The Nintendo Switch 2 and some of its games are pretty expensive 00:03.380 --> 00:10.460 What does that mean for the next PlayStation and Xbox? Ryan and Max are back, so it's time to get an Xbox and PlayStation expert to take on Nintendo's next machine 00:10.620 --> 00:27.100 Coming up after these messages on Next Gen Console Watch. Welcome back to Next Gen Console Watch, our show following all the latest gaming hardware 00:27.100 --> 00:32.420 and there's been a lot happening with Nintendo's next hardware offering. But what does that all mean for the next PlayStation and Xbox 00:32.820 --> 00:38.460 I'm Damon Hadfield, and joining me this week are Max Scoville from Podcast Beyond and Ryan McCaffrey from Podcast Unlocked 00:38.520 --> 00:43.740 Welcome back. So the Nintendo Switch 2 is the most expensive Nintendo console ever 00:43.740 --> 00:47.860 at $450 for just a console. It's more expensive than an Xbox Series X 00:48.240 --> 00:53.420 It's more expensive than a PS5 that's bundled with Astro Bot today. Then there are the games like Mario Kart World 00:53.420 --> 00:58.100 and the Switch 2 versions of Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom. So it's definitely getting more expensive to be a Nintendo gamer 00:58.520 --> 01:03.920 Let me turn it over to my panel. Max, Sony has a high-end console on offer right now with the $700 PS5 Pro 01:04.599 --> 01:08.460 For two decades, Nintendo has been the more affordable option compared to PlayStation and Xbox 01:08.660 --> 01:12.180 Now it has a console that costs more than a PS5. What's your take on this new Nintendo 01:14.540 --> 01:20.620 I think it's great overall. You know, we've seen that it's definitely going to drive industry growth, which is a huge plus for everybody 01:20.760 --> 01:25.800 You know, rising tide raises all ships and all that. as for sort of what this means for Sony 01:25.800 --> 01:29.620 I can't help but feel like this is going to sort of delay the arrival 01:29.620 --> 01:34.940 of the PlayStation 6 I mean there's a lot of other factors at play here but the fact that Nintendo is coming out swinging with 01:34.940 --> 01:40.860 you know the successor to one of the most successful consoles of all time I think the Switch 2, the fact that it is 01:40.860 --> 01:44.740 powerful enough to run a bunch of kind of maybe not next gen games 01:44.740 --> 01:49.560 but you know present gen games I would say you know stuff that's you know 01:49.560 --> 01:57.860 maybe the higher end stuff from the tail end of last gen maybe a little bit overlap with, you know, some of the Xbox series and PS5 games, I could very 01:57.860 --> 02:03.760 easily see, you know, both hardware manufacturers kind of just holding back a little bit on trying to 02:03.860 --> 02:08.160 you know, up the ante any further because we've really seen diminishing returns on 02:08.520 --> 02:13.960 you know, on next-gen hardware and the software to go with it. You know, this console generation 02:13.960 --> 02:21.980 in particular, like, it's really kind of, is it a PS5 or is it a, you know, a PS4 Pro Part 2 02:21.980 --> 02:25.980 Like it's kind of just, you know, it's granular at this point 02:25.980 --> 02:29.880 And we've seen former Sony execs, both Shuhei Yoshida and Sean Layden 02:30.000 --> 02:34.280 pretty much talk about the, you know, the issue that we're running into with AAA gaming 02:34.280 --> 02:38.140 is how expensive it is to develop and maybe the emphasis on, you know 02:38.280 --> 02:48.000 cutting edge next-gen photorealistic graphics and all that stuff. Maybe that's, you know, not really worth the trouble or maybe it's sort of the wrong focus 02:48.000 --> 02:55.880 and given the sort of recent hurdles that Sony's had, I mean, there's been kind of a drought of first-party stuff 02:56.780 --> 03:06.160 I could very easily see the next generation of hardware kind of just maybe in the same way that we saw so much overlap 03:06.160 --> 03:13.140 between PS4 and PS5 games. Maybe the PS6 is just kind of going to be pushed further down the road 03:13.140 --> 03:19.500 to allow for more third-party stuff to come to both PS5 and presumably Switch 2 and, you know, Xbox Series 03:20.080 --> 03:25.520 Again, rampant speculation here, but yeah, with how expensive everything is right now 03:25.520 --> 03:30.380 and how the sort of the future of hardware manufacturing across the board and the fact that, you know, again 03:30.380 --> 03:36.380 there's still so many people playing games on PlayStation 4, I cannot imagine Sony's in the biggest hurry 03:36.380 --> 03:40.020 to, you know, try to make PS6 happen. I mean, they have a PS5 Pro 03:40.020 --> 03:44.100 and we haven't really seen anything that takes full advantage of it 03:44.160 --> 03:54.260 So yeah, we got some wiggle room there. Well, Ryan, last we heard, according to reports, Microsoft was in a little bit more of a hurry to get to the next generation Xbox, possibly targeting 2027 03:55.060 --> 04:06.520 Do you think this reveal of the Nintendo Switch has changed Xbox's plans at all? Not necessarily, but I do think that Microsoft is probably sitting around in their meetings going 04:06.880 --> 04:13.540 boy, are we glad we're not in Nintendo's position right now in terms of having a new platform to launch 04:13.540 --> 04:17.180 because as we all know, we've been doing this a long time, each of us 04:17.240 --> 04:25.400 and these consoles are planned out many years in advance. I mean, we've actually heard, what, on-the-record quotes from Sony folks 04:25.400 --> 04:29.000 and Microsoft folks that say, basically, as soon as one comes out 04:29.480 --> 04:35.040 they start initial work on the next one. So these are really long-term things 04:35.720 --> 04:45.160 and Nintendo's just happening to land their new one in one of the most turbulent economic times globally in 04:46.120 --> 04:50.340 I don't know, maybe in my lifetime. I don't know. I'm getting older 04:50.720 --> 04:58.800 But yeah, I mean, things are so crazy, not just month to month, but week to week 04:58.800 --> 05:03.480 and even day to day at this moment in time, which is bad news for Nintendo 05:03.480 --> 05:08.640 as they're trying to figure out, is $450 even going to be the price 05:08.640 --> 05:12.420 or are they going to, at least in North America, or are they going to raise that 05:13.060 --> 05:20.360 So I think Microsoft and probably Sony too are just glad they're not prepping a console launch right now 05:20.540 --> 05:41.702 And as for what effect it might have on the proper next Xbox I think probably nothing for now but I do imagine that once the election results were what they were and the announced strategy of tariffs were clearly going to probably happen 05:41.702 --> 05:48.742 that Microsoft and probably Sony too, most likely started developing some contingency plans 05:48.902 --> 05:56.382 some alternative plans, and some different strategies, different envelopes that they can open and go with 05:56.382 --> 06:03.962 depending on what the situation is come 2027 or 2028. Now, Ryan, there's a couple of things you touched on 06:03.962 --> 06:07.642 I want to jump off of. One, things are happening day to day 06:07.742 --> 06:15.942 Things are changing very quickly and it's probably worth pointing out, we are recording this on wednesday so by the time this episode goes up who knows anything could have 06:15.942 --> 06:21.342 happened uh second point i i think we saw it called out that the tariffs don't affect digital goods 06:21.342 --> 06:27.202 which correct it's kind of an interesting little wrinkle there well yeah that certainly doesn't 06:27.202 --> 06:33.302 speak as much to the to the game pricing point that damon was leading off with but uh i will say 06:33.302 --> 06:39.102 i guess for as as happy as microsoft and sony are that they're not launching hardware right now 06:39.102 --> 06:47.442 they're probably secretly pretty thrilled that Nintendo is taking all the slings and arrows on the increased game price 06:47.542 --> 06:53.542 Because of course they want to raise prices. All the publishers would love to get more money for their games 06:53.542 --> 07:01.122 So with Nintendo at the tip of the spear there, it just means that they'll suffer all of the public blowback 07:01.122 --> 07:07.282 and assuming no change is made to that game, that software pricing strategy 07:07.482 --> 07:13.522 that's going to be the norm for PlayStation 6 and Xbox series whatever 07:14.522 --> 07:21.682 I'd be willing to make a friendly lunch wager on that. I can't imagine that first-party Microsoft games 07:21.682 --> 07:28.462 and first-party Sony games are going to stay at $70 while Nintendo will have been at $80 plus 07:28.462 --> 07:39.242 for two, three years. by that point. Yeah, it's wild that Mario Kart World is $80, and then two PlayStation and Xbox 07:39.242 --> 07:43.562 games that are coming out around the same time, Doom the Dark Ages and Death Stranding 2, are $70 07:44.202 --> 07:47.762 So again, we're in this bizarre world where Nintendo's offering the highest-end 07:48.422 --> 07:54.722 premium-priced game. So I guess that leaves my next question. What will be the first $80 07:54.722 --> 08:00.822 standard edition Xbox and PlayStation games? GTA 6. And it might be more 08:01.122 --> 08:28.202 I was going to say there's a lot of, yeah, it might be a hundred dollars. I'm not again, not, not sitting here rooting for it, but if I'm take two, I mean, just ask yourself, like, again, you, you, you want the answer to be no, but if you're take two and you have the single most anticipated video game of all time, and I'm sorry, I'm, I don't think that's debatable given GTA five's ongoing success for 10 plus years running 08:28.202 --> 08:32.922 and the fact that it's been so long between Grand Theft Auto games 08:33.822 --> 08:41.782 why wouldn't you charge $90 or $100 for the standard version? I mean, they have smarter economic people than me 08:41.782 --> 08:45.962 because I don't know anything that I'm sure have done all the math, all the research 08:45.962 --> 08:50.862 to figure out, well, you know, we may sell fewer copies at $100 08:51.222 --> 08:56.922 but the revenue might make up for it. They know exactly where that line on the graph 08:56.922 --> 09:03.502 those two lines likely intersect so yeah i i'm sure it's gonna be gta 6 is gonna be the 09:03.502 --> 09:13.082 the next big non-nintendo game to to cross that threshold max ghost of yote 70 dollars 80 dollars 09:13.082 --> 09:21.182 oh man i i feel like that's gonna be still 70 bucks i mean i could be very wrong there i i 09:21.182 --> 09:25.282 imagine they're gonna we're gonna see them heavily pushing the sort of uh you know the 09:25.282 --> 09:31.602 premium edition that's a few bucks more the digital deluxe that kind of thing with the extra 09:31.602 --> 09:37.542 little DLC things thrown in there but yeah I don't know fingers crossed 09:37.542 --> 09:41.522 it's still 70 that would be nice but I'm with Ryan I think GTA 6 09:41.522 --> 09:45.742 really of the games out there this one can get away with it 09:45.742 --> 09:49.482 you know Ghost of Yote this is going to be a big beautiful gorgeous game 09:49.482 --> 09:59.182 but yeah the weird thing is we just got done with the conversation about sony raising the price to 70 how dare they that was like five years ago 09:59.182 --> 10:02.862 and we've kind of come to accept that that's the price for a brand new triple a video game for 10:02.862 --> 10:08.542 consoles and then so nintendo's out here with and it's it's worth noting the physical edition of 10:08.542 --> 10:14.542 mario kart world is 90 bucks so that's only in uh europe that's that's in euros oh is that only 10:14.542 --> 10:18.942 in europe okay well yeah that's but still that's a big part of the market still it's it's wild to 10:18.942 --> 10:23.402 see this stuff um you know getting getting pushed that direction also there was a long stretch there 10:23.402 --> 10:28.862 where you know nintendo games were uh they were 10 bucks cheaper than everybody else they they 10:28.862 --> 10:33.822 kind of were floating around 50 bucks when everything else was around 60 and you know 10:33.822 --> 10:38.902 before that it was like you had stuff like what like conquer's bad fur day was like 80 bucks as 10:38.902 --> 10:43.382 well but that was back in you know 90s pricing yeah yeah i i wonder if we're headed back in that 10:43.382 --> 11:02.144 direction where they really are looking at the scope of the games and kind of being like okay what you know how much should we charge for this because if you know mario kart world mario kart 8 Deluxe is the best Switch game and they did crazy numbers on that thing and it keeps just printing money for them And again it a similar kind of much cuter version of the GTA 6 situation 11:02.284 --> 11:06.184 where they know there's demand for this. They know that people love the last one that came out 11:06.304 --> 11:10.744 and they saw how much money people were willing to spend on that previous iteration 11:10.964 --> 11:15.744 So they've got a brand new one that does even more stuff. Why wouldn't they charge more for it 11:15.744 --> 11:24.024 It's frustrating, but I can't blame them. And their hedge is the discount on packing it in with the system 11:24.284 --> 11:29.084 You know, they'd say, well, you know, you could just buy it with the system and then it's only a $50 game 11:29.084 --> 11:36.044 So that doesn't seem to have quelled the vocal online rebellion, nor should it 11:36.044 --> 11:52.984 But it's going to be interesting to see, too, what if we get any data at all from June onward of what the split is in Switch 2 sales between just the vanilla system itself and the Mario Kart bundle 11:53.984 --> 12:01.384 Yeah. Again, like Max pointed out, best-selling Nintendo Switch game. Who is going out to buy a Nintendo Switch without Mario Kart World 12:01.964 --> 12:08.664 Right. How many of those packages are even going to make it into stores? Ryan, we know Xbox has handheld plans 12:09.584 --> 12:15.384 What does a $450 Switch 2 tell us about what an Xbox handheld might cost 12:15.484 --> 12:23.444 And that's with the note that there's multiple plans. There's going to be third-party Xboxes made and an official first-party Xbox handled as well 12:24.404 --> 12:32.504 Yeah, I mean, I don't want to even try to predict what the officially licensed third-party one that's rumored for 12:32.804 --> 12:40.324 I believe it was next year or this year. I can't remember now my post vacation brain in effect, but, uh, but as far as the actual 12:40.324 --> 12:47.024 Microsoft built handheld that, that will, that we're expecting per the report, uh, at 12:47.024 --> 12:56.984 the start of their next console generation. Yeah. I certainly think that four 50 becomes the floor for the pricing on that handheld 12:56.984 --> 13:11.064 And it's most likely going to be a little bit higher. I mean, we've, we talked back when the PS5 Pro launched on this show that, that we felt that $700 kind of became the floor for PS6 and the next Xbox 13:11.824 --> 13:26.284 And so if you've got your sort of main high-end set-top box at seven, then you've got a handheld option is probably going to be five, you know, maybe even a little more 13:26.284 --> 13:35.084 Still TBD on how much horsepower Microsoft will choose to pack into that, both just in a vacuum but also relative to the Switch 2 13:35.084 --> 13:50.724 Of course, the Switch 2 has its own costs built in with the Joy-Con and the other proprietary hardware that a more sort of vanilla handheld PC, which is what the Microsoft handheld is going to be, that that has 13:50.724 --> 13:58.304 But yeah, I mean, $450, I think, becomes the absolute floor for the Xbox handheld that we're expecting down the line 13:59.344 --> 14:06.404 I know I said at the top of the show that Nintendo, for at least two decades now, has been the more affordable entrance into gaming 14:06.604 --> 14:12.444 And that seemingly has sort of changed overnight that they have this new console that costs more than a PS5 or Series X 14:12.444 --> 14:21.264 However, if PS6 and the next Xbox are $700 consoles, then I guess in this new world order, Nintendo is still the more affordable option, even at $450 14:22.144 --> 14:26.844 And I think it's interesting noting as we transition now from the Switch 1 to the Switch 2 14:27.744 --> 14:33.704 the holy trinity of the best-selling consoles of all time is the PlayStation 2, the Nintendo DS, and the Nintendo Switch 14:34.064 --> 14:40.644 which are all 10 million units apart from PS2 is $160 million and the Nintendo Switch is $150 million 14:41.064 --> 14:45.764 There's not really anything that got close to those three. And what these three have in common is that none of them cost more than $300 14:47.864 --> 14:53.464 PlayStation's second most successful console ever, the PS4, made it to $118 million 14:53.584 --> 14:59.284 So it's like nowhere near. All this to say, I think two things. I think the time of the $300 console is just over 14:59.844 --> 15:07.724 That's gone. Aside from maybe some niche offerings from like, you know, Retroid or like, you know, retro consoles that are aimed at more of a niche market 15:07.724 --> 15:13.264 And I also think the Nintendo Switch could be the last console ever to reach 150 million units sold 15:14.664 --> 15:25.724 I would agree with that, for sure. One final question for both of you. I think a lot of people, when we talked about the Nintendo Direct last week, were really positive about the Switch 2 and about the Direct 15:26.164 --> 15:31.164 Just a lot of people had to stick a shock about the prices. So personally, everything is still up in the air 15:31.444 --> 15:35.504 We're in a holding pattern, waiting to hear what's going to happen with pre-orders on the Switch and the price 15:35.504 --> 15:39.684 But how are you feeling about the Switch 2? How are you feeling about the state of gaming in general 15:39.864 --> 15:48.364 Probably getting more expensive now. Max, I'll start with you. It's a bizarre time in general, but especially around gaming 15:48.864 --> 15:54.464 To your point, I can't help but feel like, yeah, Switch could be the last console to reach $150 million 15:55.104 --> 16:01.684 We're seeing younger gamers just gravitate less and less towards consoles. There's so many people latching onto PC gaming 16:02.064 --> 16:06.644 Mobile gaming has gotten, it's kind of caught up with console gaming in a lot of ways 16:06.644 --> 16:11.244 you see a lot of console games make their way to ios sooner sooner or later which is kind of 16:11.244 --> 16:15.544 impressive and not just you know small indie stuff but like you know resident evil 4 remake 16:15.544 --> 16:30.426 and death stranding are on there which is kind of wild to think about um and yeah if console prices are going up if we seeing them you know hover closer and closer to a thousand at that point maybe just build a PC or get a really nice phone That something you going to use for more than just playing games anyway 16:31.066 --> 16:35.546 Consoles have always been kind of a luxury device, and it's depressing to say that 16:36.126 --> 16:43.346 On a lighter note, I think the Switch 2 looks awesome. I'm really excited about it. And this is the most excited I've ever been for a Mario Kart game 16:43.446 --> 16:49.206 I think I enthusiastically was speculating that maybe it would be like a Forza Horizon approach 16:49.206 --> 16:54.846 where they're like, oh, now it's you can go anywhere and drive wherever. And I'm so stoked that it's, yeah, I'm so excited about that 16:54.986 --> 17:02.126 So yeah, Mario Kart Horizon, I'm into it. But yeah, I mean, it's going to be really weird 17:02.126 --> 17:06.266 to see what hardware does in the next few years. Yeah. Ryan, how about you? I know you like Forza as well 17:07.306 --> 17:13.006 Oh, big, especially Forza Horizon. So yeah, I'm definitely looking forward to Mario Kart 17:13.166 --> 17:18.466 And I mean, the thing for me, I will say, I was surprised at the price point 17:18.466 --> 17:22.046 I thought I was pretty certain, and I guess I wasn't alone 17:22.046 --> 17:26.546 because we ran stories on IGN about how most of the major ysts 17:26.546 --> 17:30.386 were expecting it to be $399, to be $400. And I was right there 17:30.446 --> 17:36.866 I just thought that just seems like the right price for the Switch 2. So $450 is a little bit of a surprise to me 17:37.766 --> 17:44.746 Am I, is it going to stop me from buying one as soon as I possibly can? No, still definitely going to be an all-in day one 17:44.846 --> 17:52.066 And we still don't really know the full extent of the Switch 2's capabilities, like, horsepower-wise 17:52.506 --> 17:58.686 So that remains to be seen. I mean, I've certainly watched some of the Treehouse videos, like Donkey Kong Bonanza 17:59.266 --> 18:07.106 You can visually see, even in just a YouTube stream, it clearly looks better than Switch 1 games 18:08.046 --> 18:14.306 So I'm just, I always get excited for new console generations. I just always do 18:15.026 --> 18:19.606 I think it's ingrained in us, given how old the three of us are 18:20.166 --> 18:25.366 We've grown up with console generations being such a big deal and a big thing 18:25.586 --> 18:29.266 And I know that the longer that our careers have gone on 18:29.906 --> 18:37.306 that it has kind of become a little less of a mega event and more of a gradual transition 18:37.866 --> 18:42.246 And there's good and bad to that, but I'm still super excited for the Switch 2 18:42.246 --> 18:46.706 gonna try and get one on day one Donkey Kong's a pleasant surprise 18:46.706 --> 18:52.066 Mario Kart clearly isn't but it looks great as Max said and for me my 18:52.066 --> 18:56.886 hype will go through the roof whenever they do announce the next 18:56.886 --> 19:00.466 major Mario game and with that 40th anniversary coming up this fall 19:00.466 --> 19:06.846 I'd just be stunned if it's if it's not announced at what I presume will 19:06.846 --> 19:16.566 still be the regular June timed Nintendo direct probably hopefully like i guess right after launch or i don't know how that's nintendo will 19:16.566 --> 19:21.966 will handle that this year in particular but but yeah the next major mario's gotta be coming 19:21.966 --> 19:28.726 probably this year but mario kart's a great start donkey kong's a great start and you know the price 19:28.726 --> 19:36.986 is a little a little less than ideal but uh i'm still all in provided the tariff situation doesn't 19:36.986 --> 19:44.186 suddenly turn it into a $530 console. Exactly. Exactly. Fingers crossed it doesn't come to that 19:44.906 --> 19:50.146 Well, dear viewers, we want to know, when it comes to game prices, where do you draw the line at the cost of new games 19:50.426 --> 19:54.366 $70 is at your limit, or you feel like you could live with $80 19:54.366 --> 19:59.466 or even $90 or $100 for a GTA VI? Make sure to vote at IGN.com 19:59.466 --> 20:04.206 the day this episode goes live, and we'll share the results with you next week. Just like we can with last week's poll 20:04.666 --> 20:09.886 last week we asked, what Switch 2 game are you looking forward to the most? Unsurprisingly, I think, is Mario Kart World 20:09.886 --> 20:15.526 with almost half the votes. That was followed by Donkey Kong Bonanza, then the Duskbloods, and then Hollow Knight's Silksong 20:15.606 --> 20:20.006 which is a little bit surprising because pretty much any time a Nintendo Direct or a PlayStation Showcase comes around 20:20.086 --> 20:23.606 people are hoping to see Silksong. So I know there's a lot of anticipation out there 20:23.606 --> 20:28.006 for that one, in any case. All right, this episode of Next Gen Console Watch 20:28.006 --> 20:32.726 was produced by myself and Jobert Atienza. Technical directions by Jobert Atienza 20:32.726 --> 20:37.206 with technical production by Mariah Franson and Amir Rakib. Audio engineering is handled by Amir Aqib 20:37.366 --> 20:40.986 Post-production editing is by Jobar Atienza. And graphic design is by Justin Vachon 20:41.486 --> 20:49.326 Next Gen Console Watch is an IGN production and part of the Geek Media Network. Viewers, I want to let you know IGN Live is officially returning to L.A. this year 20:49.626 --> 20:55.146 The event will take place June 7th and 8th and will feature tons of playable games on PCs, consoles, and handhelds 20:55.386 --> 21:02.566 Celebrity panels and interviews, trailer reveals, giveaways, and so much more. Tickets are on sale right now, so head over to IGN.com slash live 21:02.566 --> 21:07.766 Scoop them up for early bird pricing. and then I want you to let you know returning this Saturday 21:07.766 --> 21:13.406 the 12th at 8.30am Pacific is Devs React with a Baldur's Gate 3 episode. Tune into that 21:13.406 --> 21:19.486 and then upcoming episodes will include Silent Hill 2 Remake, Turok, Animal Well, Astro Bot, and Indiana Jones and The Great Circle 21:20.606 --> 21:25.266 That's it for this edition of Next Gen Console Watch. Thank you to both Max and Ryan. Thanks to everyone working behind the scenes 21:25.266 --> 21:31.566 to make this episode possible. My name is Damon. We'll be back next week. Maybe we'll have updates on the Switch 2 situation with pre-orders 21:31.766 --> 21:40.386 Maybe not. We'll see. But I think regardless we can count um there'll be lots to talk about next week so everybody we'll see you then