What's going on, guys? I'm Tim Kelly. He
is Anthony San Philippo. This is Philly
Stoplight,
brought to you by our good friends at
Watner Newman, Philadelphia's personal
injury attorneys. And Tim, I'm still I'm
I even know I'm going to be there in a
few weeks. I'm I'm just jealous right
now to see you in the in the bright
sunlight of Western Florida, right on
the right on the Gulf, and I'm like,
man, it sucks to be sitting here with
the dirty snow out front. But you're
down there working your tail off doing
great stuff. What do you What do you got
for us today?
Well, it's been an interesting uh first
weekend change here. I think there was a
lot of drama in some senses to get it
started between Nick Castanos's release
and then Bryce Harper arriving at camp
and responding to some of the elite
verse non- elite debate. But now you're
really starting to get into some of the
more baseball stuff and Jesus Lazardo in
particular has really stood out to me.
Uh he pitched a live DP today and there
there was a great moment where he froze
Brandon Marsh for a back door or a
backwards K. And yes, we can say, "Oh,
Brandon Marsh didn't hit a lefty." But
the the takeaway was not that. The
takeaway was Brandon Marsh just kind of
shocked at how good of a pitch that
Jesus Lazardo put in there against him.
And you don't want to take too much this
time of the year from live BPs and
things of that nature, but I have a
feeling that he's going to have a really
special season this year.
Yeah. I mean, look, there's there's a
real thought that he suddenly became
behind Christopher Sanchez
this the next most important pitcher on
this roster. And that's saying something
with Zack Wheeler still here and with
Andrew Payner coming right as the top
prospect like Lazardo has has positioned
himself as an incredibly important
Philly. And and when I say second most
important position uh pitcher, he may be
top five in the organization right now
as far as importance. And you know, when
you look at the the way his season ended
last year was what really impressed me,
Tim,
he was, you know, we he had his his up
and down ups and downs during the
regular season. He was great at times.
He was awful at times. He was just okay
at times, but the way he pitched in the
in the postseason
really showed me something with Jesus
Lazardo and said, "This this guy's got a
got a little bit of extra, right?
There's a little bit of something else
inside that brings it beyond just the
skill and the talent that you see on the
mound. There's a there's a there's a
want to and a desire to be great." And I
think that that's that's important to
have. And now he's of course going into
a contract year. The Phillies of course
want to get it done get a deal done with
him. We'll see where that goes. But I I
I think he's poised for a big season for
this team.
Yeah. And I talked about this with
Brandon Marsh after that at bat. I I was
just saying I know it didn't turn out
the way you guys wanted in the game, but
one of the things that stuck with me the
entire off seasonason is how good Jesus
Lazardo looked in that inning of relief
where he could just cut it loose. He
didn't have to worry about preserving
himself for six or seven innings. He he
was nasty in that role and it showed a
flexibility that obviously made Ranger
Suarez very successful. But and this is
no disser the stuff that Lazardo has is
significantly better than him. The issue
was health. He stayed healthy last year
and for as much as I I I talked about
early in this offseason, well, he does
have the health history. He's been in
some bad teams. Maybe it makes sense for
him to consider an extension this
spring. And again, he's not a Scott
Boris client. I keep seeing people say
this. He's with Rock Nation. So, the
Scott Forest thing about he won't sign a
deal before free agency, not necessarily
true, but I do think that there's an
argument if you're him to saying, "I
pitched really well last year and I
think I can get even better. Maybe I
should bet on myself."
Yeah. No, absolutely. And and you know,
the one thing that I think makes it a
little bit easier for him to sit there
and say, "Let me bet on myself." I mean,
you know, pitchers, it's always a little
bit harder because an injury destroy
like really hurts pitchers. Like, it
really more so than a position player.
It hurts a pitcher. But if you're Jesus
Lazardo and you're on the Phillies and
you realize that the Phillies since
Caleb Cthum has been here have been
really, really good at keeping their
pitchers healthy, especially starting
pitchers for the most part have been
healthy.
then you sit there and say, "Well, then
it yes, I'm gambling on myself, but it's
a it's an it's less risky of a gamble to
do it here with the Phillies where they
do a great job of taking care of their
pitchers than it would be, say, if I was
on another team and, you know, that that
struggles to keep their pitchers
healthy, for example." And so, in that
regard, it might be worth it for him to
say, "I'm going to take a shot, see how
the season goes, and we'll figure it out
towards the end of the year."
At the same time, if I'm the Phillies,
I'm going to make him say no this
spring. I'm going to say, hey, you're
making whatever it is, $11 million this
year. How would you feel about a 5year
140 extension, something in that realm?
Because I I think in if he pitches like
he did last season, you're talking 150
million. If he takes even another step,
you're talking 175 to 200 because he's
going to be on the right side of 30. And
there is downside, there is injury risk.
I get all that, but uh you just lost
Ranger Suarez. still have some
uncertainty moving forward with what you
have with Zack Wheeler and Aaron Null at
this stage of their career. Andrew
Penner you think is going to be really
good, but outside of Christopher
Sanchez, you don't have a lot in the way
of certainty and I think you could get
some if you resign Jesus Lazardo.
Yeah, and I I think that the Phillies
bought themselves a little bit of equity
t with the Lazardo camp, Tim. Um they
gave him a little bit more. I mean, it
wasn't like a major amount more, but
they gave him a little bit more than
what the market value was expecting for
this uh this year. Um to avoid
arbitration. Um a lot of people thought
he was going to get about 10.1 10.2.
They ended up giving him 11 million. So,
it's really basically like a bonus
800,000.
And I think that that when you do that,
you're you're basically saying, "Hey, we
believe in you. Give us an opportunity
here. let g give us a chance to pres
present something to you that we think
will be beneficial for both you but also
the organization as well and and so I
think that they might have that even if
it even if it doesn't get done in spring
training Tim I think that doing that
kind of gives them the opportunity to be
the team that gets the last crack at it
if it does go into next off season much
in the way that Aaron Nola gave the
Phillies a a crack at it and much in the
way that Kyle Schwarber gave gave the
Phillies the last shot at it, even
though other teams made uh similar
offers. Um I think that Lazardo would
probably give the Phillies that same
that same last chance if it got to
October or November.
Well, it may get to February or March.
That's I guess the problem with next off
season is that uh the thing you had
working in your favor also with Nola and
Schwberers, they had qualifying offers
attached to them. So any other team that
signed them not only would have had to
give them a bigger deal, but they would
have had a surrender draft pick
compensation. The Phillies obviously did
not need to do that. And if we assume in
the next CBA that the qualifying offer
will stay, which I think it will, but
perhaps it it looks it has a different
form. Uh there used to be like type A
and type B free agents. Like may maybe
there are slight changes and tweaks that
make it a little bit more player
friendly. I kind of doubt that, but uh
that it's all something to consider.
Another guy the Philly signed when he
declined a qualifying offer in free
agency was Trey Turner. And Trey Turner
spoke earlier this week and he talked
first and foremost about the World
Baseball Classic. Obviously, I mean, I I
guess show Otani is the the star of the
last WBC based off the way it ended and
going back and forth. But statistically,
Trey Turner was as good a player as
anyone in the WC last year and really
that there's been in the history of the
tournament uh in one uh cycle. So, uh it
it was a little surprising this week
when he said that he hadn't heard from
Team USA, he would have been interested,
but quote, "The phone never rang." At
the same time, you have Bobby Wit Jr.
who to me is one of the top five players
in baseball at any sport, and then
Gunnar Henderson.
I kind of get it.
Yeah, but Trey Turner could have also
been and but so same with Gunnar
Henderson. They could be they could have
played other positions, right? Like you
could move Henderson's even more
flexible. He's he's played second and
third as well in in the majors. So, you
could have moved one of them around if
need be. He could have been more
utility. And Turner could have played
second could play second base if need
be. Um, I I I was a little surprised
that there wasn't even a a phone call to
see what the deal was, right? Like, and
I get it. I, you know, you want to go
with the younger, more talented players,
and Bobby Whip makes a thousand% like he
should be the starting shortstop.
There's no doubt about it. But there's
there is some value to having players on
your team who have experienced
international play in the past. Um a and
know what it's like, know what the
experience is like, know what the
pressure is like and have performed in
that in those spots. And so there is
value to that. Um and so I, you know,
maybe Team USA made had a miss here.
Look, the Phillies aren't going to
complain. They have 11 players already
uh playing 16 actually 16 if you count
minor leaguers that are going to be
playing in the World Baseball Classic.
So I I'm sure that they're fine with
Trey Turner not being there. But I do
think it's a little bit disrespectful to
not call the guy. He just won the
batting title the year before. He
finished top five in MVP voting and to
not even get a phone call from Team USA
that that that I could understand why he
would be a little chafed about that.
Well, I think it's disrespectful even if
you weren't going to have him on the
team to not call him and say, "Hey, we
appreciate what you did three years ago.
Uh, if there's an injury, you're someone
that's very high on our list. We're
sorry it worked out this way, but Bobby
Whitten, Gunnar Henderson, what are you
going to do?" I mean, I I think he would
get it. Uh, he can move around. I I will
say Bryce Terra is elite elite at second
base defensively and Ernie Clement can
move all over the infield and Trey
Turner can move all over the infield I
guess or at least second and short.
Ernie Clement does move all over the
infield though. So maybe that made him a
more logical fit for the team. Like you
said, I I think the Phillies are
probably secretly happy he's not doing
it. This is a guy that he's going to
turn 33 this season. He's had hamstring
injuries in backtoback years. You want
to try and keep him healthy. and he
talked about that uh when he met with us
earlier this week that the biggest thing
this year is try and keep your
hamstrings from getting injured. Two
years ago, he had a left hamstring uh
strain that cost him over six weeks of
time and then even when he came back, he
really was afraid to cut it loose, which
isn't uncommon uh coming off a hamstring
injury. Last year was a more minor
strain and he attributed that to uh a
lack of hydration and he's going to do
some slightly better nutrition this
year. Although I I never got the sense
with him that that was an issue that he
was like eating cheeseburgers or
anything like he he's in he's in pretty
good shape. But yeah, I mean I I think
it it's one of those things they're
going to have balance this season
because he's going to be 33. He's played
in the league a long time. At the same
time, he's coming off of his most steals
in the season since 2018 and he finished
fifth in MVP because he's still such a
havoc on the base paths when he runs.
Yeah. No, and that and that's the thing
like I I think for from a Phillies
perspective, if you're a Phillies fan,
if you if you're kind of agnostic about
the the World Baseball Classic or you're
just a casual viewer of it and you don't
really care that much, you're probably
not disappointed that Trey Turner is not
uh playing in the WBC because now his
his u his usage in the in March will be
managed by the Phillies. They'll protect
him. uh he'll get his he'll get his at
bats, he'll get his games, but they'll
also he doesn't have to be playing, you
know, nine inning games right now. He's
just gonna, you know, take it at the
pace that he needs to take it at. And
they'll ensure that he gets to the start
of the season against the Texas Rangers
in a month, five weeks actually. Um
healthy and that's the that's the most
important thing. And and you know, you
want Trey Turner going into the season
being the guy he was a year ago. like if
he's hitting 300 and and he's stealing
all those bags and playing the best
defensive shorts stop of his career. Um
like that's that's a an very very
important player. It's a top three
offensive player on your team. That
matters and and yeah, and so it's okay.
It's okay if you're looking at from a
Philly's perspective
for sure. The final thing I want to get
to before we get out of here is the
battle for the third lefty reliever spot
in the bullpen. Obviously, the Phillies
brought back Josie Alvarado, but traded
Matt Stum this off season. Tanner Banks
and Alvarado are going to be the the top
two lefties, barring injury, but then
you have a third spot where Rob Thompson
said it doesn't necessarily need to be a
third lefty, but in an ideal world,
you'd have a third lefty. The three guys
that I'm really looking at are Kyle
Backhouse, who they acquired in a trade
the same day they got rid of Matt Stro.
You also have Genesis Cabrera and Tim
Mesa who are both non-roster guys with
pretty lengthy major league experience.
Uh Tim Mesa finished the season with the
Phillies last year. I believe was on the
NLDS roster. And then Genesis Cabrera
and you can go read about this on
Patterson. He's trying to make the
Phillies five years after he hit Bryce
Harper in the face with a p a pitch.
It's quite the story really if you think
about it. And uh he had a a tough year
last year. He pitched with four
different teams. didn't go well, but
he's made over 300 appearances in his
career. So, I guess one of the things
that Rob Thompson has talked about this
spring about why he thinks the Phillies
are better right now is because he
thinks they have better depth beyond
just the guys that are going to make the
team in terms of the non-roster guys. I
mentioned Mesa and uh Genesis Cabrera.
Brian de la Cruz is in camp. He's looked
good. So you have some additional depth
this season and it could come into play
here with this third reliever spot
because you have Bakus who impressed
them early this week. He has three minor
league options though and in some senses
that could work in his favor because you
don't want to have an entire bullpen of
guys that you can't send down. But
depending on the contractual terms and
we don't know what they are with Mesa
and Cabra I would imagine at some point
they have opt out. So if you if they
don't make the opening day roster, you
risk losing them out of your
organization.
Yeah. Um and I think that the one that
makes the most sense to me is Bakus. And
I know he's got a limited major league
experience, but I do think that it was
interesting that that was the guy that
they they brought in the same, like you
said, the same day that they traded away
Matt Stro. almost as if here's here's
the Matt Strom replacement um from the
left side. Um and then yes, you have
those guys in the M. Look, we saw a
little bit of Tim Mesa last year. He
wasn't terrible, but he's just he's he's
become a little bit more of a
journeyman. Um he's also local, so I
wouldn't be surprised if he ends up
being a guy that um is willing to stay
in the minor leagues a little bit
longer, you know, uh with the
opportunity to stay closer to family.
And Cabrera is is is a really
interesting name. And look, if he comes
out and and does a job, maybe he's a guy
that, you know, can make it onto the
roster, especially since Bakus can go to
the minor leagues right away. um maybe
Cabrera gets that first shot, that first
crack at it and then if it doesn't work
out, you can move on from him and you
you have those other guys in the minors
that you can bring in. Um although I
like I said, I do think back this is the
guy that the organization probably looks
at and likes the most of the three and
maybe he just is the best of the best
option and starts the year with the
team. Um but he does offer that
flexibility that maybe the other two
guys do not.
Right. And the thing about like you said
with Genesis Cabrera, if you have him on
the roster or Mesa for the first month
and it just doesn't work, so be it. You
DFA them and move on. Maybe you keep him
in the organization, maybe you don't. I
think Cabrera has a high would you
agree? Cabrera has a higher ceiling than
Tim Mesa. If you're picking one of the
two non-roster guys, Cabrera is a high
90s guy when things are going well. He's
had some stretches in St. Louis and
Toronto where he was a really effective
pitcher.
Oh, absolutely. He's certainly uh you
know more upside um higher floor too,
right? I mean um and and look, he's he's
not been terrible. I mean, he's he
bounced like last year. I know he
bounced around with four different teams
uh in in 2025. Didn't really get a
chance to stick with anybody. Um you
know, but I mean I thought that he had
his his best stuff with the with the
Pirates. Uh and the Phillies actually
got to see him there. um wasn't bad. I
mean, you know, 1.18 whip is not a
terrible thing. Um you know, yeah, he's
had some some some successes in
different places. Um you know, yes, it
started off rough. Um then it got good
and then it got bad again. You know,
it's been a little bit inconsistent. Um
what I would like to see more out of him
that he hasn't really shown in the last
couple of years is more swing and miss,
right? I mean, he does throw harder, but
ball the ball gets put in play a little
bit against him. Um, and of course, he's
his he's he's a little bit wild. Um, so
if he can throw a little bit more
command, uh, and a little bit more swing
and miss, then yeah, I think he's got a
shot to be that guy. And if if they if
it is a one-mon trial and then you DFA
him, it's not the end of the world.
Teams do that every year with bullpen
guys all the time,
right? And he as for as much as it feels
like he's been around like if you think
about the Harper getting hit in the
face, it was the year he won MVP. That
feels like a lifetime ago. Like Joe
Gerard's getting ejected from that game.
First of all, it's Joe Gerard. Second of
all, he's he's trying to hold his mask
as he's arguing with the homeplayed
umpire. That's how long ago it was. But
Civer is still only 29 years old. So,
it's an interesting and you say like
he's been incons that's the story of
like most relievers that become
available and yes most of them don't end
up being Jeff Hoffman but some of them
do and I I think this is an interesting
possible guy but Mesa to me is good
depth. I I thought he pitched well for
what they asked down the stretch after
Alvarado went down last year and uh I
I'm interested in Bakus. I think he's
going to have to be able to get
right-handed hitters out. Like if this
was the Lugie era where you only had to
face lefties, I think he would be for
sure on the roster. He's going to have
to show he can get righties out as well
because you're going to have to face
three batters and teams are going to
find a way around that if you can't get
out righties. But I it's an interesting
battle here and uh we're getting close
to games this weekend. So exciting times
here down at Clearwater. Anthony, that's
going to do it for this episode. Uh we
are part of the Federary News Network at
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talk to you guys next time.